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Kit |
Re:re | ||
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Posts: 313 (02/25/02 05:22:54) |
One word: tongue.
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Anthony |
re: "Impotence" | ||
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Posts: 346 (02/25/02 05:27:01) |
With the apparent death of Hill, and Keller, Jazz Hoyt, Cyril O'Reily and Timmy Kirk being sent to death row, I'm getting a feeling that TF plans to end Oz with the end of the next season. That's further reinforced with Schillinger being sent to solitary and Robson's self-inflicted injury.
The two most unrealistic scenes: White nearly killing Cutler, who must be at least twice his size, and seeing Lopresti's survival after the dog attack. He didn't have a scractch on him. |
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Droai |
Re: re: "Impotence" | ||
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Posts: 370 (02/25/02 07:33:45) |
I have a question. I haven't had a chance to watch this episode with caps yet, so can someone please help me out? Right before they closed the door on Vern in solitary, did he say "Where's Keller?" And the next scene 'was' Keller returning from court and doing the 'Monty' for Sister Pete. Anybody?
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Lora01 |
Impotence: A potent episode | ||
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Posts: 7 (02/25/02 07:41:19) |
I was baffled as to why we were never shown Keller's tattoo this season. The answer is that TF was saving up the crucified Christ symbol for another major story - Hill's. We were pointedly shown that symbol on Urbano's arm before the Redding/Hill scenes. Because God loved humans, Christ took the hit for man. Because Hill loved Redding, he took the hit for Burr. The McM exclamation "Jesus Christ!" was not a throwaway here. I do not think Hill's statement "I can feel my legs" was cheap sentimentality. There is a scriptural passage about Christ to the effect that "We are buried with him in his death; we are raised with him in his resurrection". I think Hill's final line refers to that.
=== And perhaps to Psalm 22,17, "I may tell all my bones"? Further reference in John 19, 32-33: "Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other that was crucified with him, But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs; But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came thereout blood and water." There was quite a long shot of the blood pooling on the floor under Hill; a reason beyond the obvious, maybe? And in 36 & 37, "For these things were done that the Scriptures shall be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken...They shall look on him whom they pierced." Maybe not what TF had in mind, but I wonder. |
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Rburgette69 |
re: | ||
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Posts: 575 (02/25/02 07:42:33) |
Vern said "Nice color" not Keller. It does sound alike though. Yes Keller had just returned from court when Sister Pete arrived. He was undressing out of the suit and into his regular clothes thats why he was naked. He did ask her to show him her tits though.LOL The work in this episode was the best Christopher did this season,he was also on more then he was in the rest of the episodes from season 5.
Rick |
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Droai |
Re: re: | ||
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Posts: 370 (02/25/02 08:06:01) |
Thanks, Rick!
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GioVita |
Re: re: "Impotence" | ||
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Posts: 1135 (02/25/02 08:21:21) |
"White nearly killing Cutler" -- was a brilliant scene and what he was doing to him was quite in the realm of reality -- a smaller person can very well do that to a larger one knowing the right pressure points.
All those people on death row doesn't necessarily mean they'll all buy the farm -- we could be gearing up for a Season *about* the Death Penalty. Giovanni
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jfc |
Re: Impotence | ||
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Posts: 2008 (02/25/02 08:35:29) |
What happened to White and Alvarez reminded me of the Hill Unnatural Disasters monologue in which he said after the Hebrews reached the Promised Land they just met wave after wave of violence. These stories ended up in the TF "I can't answer the questions, you'll have to try yourself" category. Perhaps one answer is that in line with the Good Intentions monologues, the world is so complexly interconnected, determinism effectively fails, and good cannot be expected to be rewarded with good.
Some of the episode reached back to Laws of God versus Laws of Man. Guille had asked what is God's Law. It's "love." Much of the horror that befell them stemmed from lack of following God's law of Love, being influenced by personal animosity or pride, or falling back on trivial human by the book regulations. I am referring to Glynn, the parole board in which Dawkins under his influence was hardly impartial and even hateful, and McM towards White. It's easier to use a law book than to analyze things in terms of love, but not mindless love, love combined with judgment. And the hardened parole board can only judge by Alvarez' external actions, whereas only God can look into his heart. Said also tried to follow a "by the book" regulation to some extent regarding Beecher and Keller, although there are still aspects of Said's advice that are of sobering value. TF in an essay talks about how "Sr Mary Christmas" said everything we need to know is written down in a book somewhere and we need to follow those rules because it is written down there. TF said he preferred to ask "Why should we follow them?" It was sad, and revealing, to see McM refer to the inmates in solitary as his "mistakes." That's a little like the title character in The Island of Dr Moreau and his "mistakes" and brings to mind experimentation and playing God. Very early in S1 there is an opaque McM line that has always puzzled me. He says to one of the prisoner investigators "I am not even certain Christ died." Eleanor's reference to his crucifying himself and those around him when they don't come up to his ideals might have a link to that, indicating a misunderstanding of the role of Christ. The part of that about crucifying others might also comment on things like Said's reaction to Beecher/Keller and Vern's to Robson. Robson was unable to deal with the nature "God gave him" and in a sense did make a eunuch of himself for the sake of his weird concept of the kingdom of heaven, the Aryan Brotherhood. Keller is increasingly able to accept his nature, because of Beecher. Despite my nightmarish concerns, Keller did not make a eunuch ofhimself. I liked the fact that Meehan, Ryan's new "father", was able to make up for the fathers that had failed him in the past, his real father and his callous RC "fathers". There was a nice cycle in his story. When he reported Caroline's death to a priest, the priest did not believe him. When he told McM the truth about Cyril, McM would not believe him. I might have seen too much in the following, but I'll risk embarrassment and mention it anyway. When Meehan is with Ryan on the floor, he first reaches for Ryan's upper leg. That might have been accidental, but it did turn my thoughts back to Ryan's joke about being groped in the confessional, and made me wonder if that was deliberate and then TF was going to show us true priestly love in contrast to Ryan's joke. Another "turning sex into a crime" vs "love" scene. Probably too much seen there. I do not know what to make of the Rebadow story. I will be surprisingly skeptical for now. Is a point that we can make ourselves see God's hand at work in the universe when it isn't, attaching significance to random details that's not there, like jfc studying a TF script? Rebadow's connections between the power failures, his royal flush in spades and "the death watch", all might indicate that. That issue comes up again. Some of the Muslims saw Robson's fate as "Allah's punishment." Granted Robson brought his fate on himself, but did God actually punish him, or are the Muslims putting a construct on the world that is not there? Lora, thanks for pointing out the possible symbolism of Hil's being shanked in the side. That was good to notice. |
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jfc |
Re: Impotence | ||
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Posts: 2008 (02/25/02 08:45:23) |
One other thing: was the fact that Holly sent Beecher a Valentine's card supposed to trigger in his mind, or suggest to the audience, that, as John Lennon said "Love is the answer?"
Trying to keep track of dates in Oz is just fruity. |
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Rburgette69 |
Re: Impotence | ||
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Posts: 575 (02/25/02 08:54:11) |
I do agree with Gio,a smaller person can over-power a bigger person. Bigger does not always mean stronger.
Hell Even (Jazz) seems very short maybe 5'6 yet I know he could kick my ass and I'm 5'10.LOL Rick |
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GioVita |
Impotence | ||
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Posts: 1135 (02/25/02 09:12:50) |
Indicates to me that there will most assuredly be a very interesting Season 6. With Hill dead, it's also quite possible that he can still be the narrator. Maybe dressed as an African Jesus!
Acting kudos in the Season overall - If only CM had had more to do [I *was*thinking that Sr. Pete had no blood in her veins] Anyway, the ease, dare I say, poise with which CM can literally bare all never ceases to amaze me. How much he gets across with just one look, turn of the head, etc. when Keller finally sees Toby -- Ay yay yay ... I knew when I saw the first episode that this would be Kirk's year and last night was one grande finale for Alvarez. Well, Mr. Winters certainly impressed me with showing us Ryan's humanity. Oh, I almost forgot: the kissing specialist I go to says that the kiss was their most technologically advanced and well worth watching. Giovanni
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spaz |
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Posts: 357 (02/25/02 10:13:30) |
Now that they are both on death row, perhaps Keller will use Jericho to entertain Cyril while rubbing his head with *both* hands at the same time.
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Droai |
Re: Impotence | ||
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Posts: 370 (02/25/02 11:08:10) |
Gio and Kit, I agree about the 'tongue' action.
By the way Gio, thanks for posting Tom Fontana's web-site addy. I sent him a nice little 'man with a flashlight' rant last night. |
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GioVita |
Re: Impotence | ||
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Posts: 1135 (02/25/02 11:45:17) |
"I Wouldn't Change the Man He Is" (Ashford/Simpson)
Well, not all the verses apply, but this one might: "But I wouldn't change him, no I wouldn't change his funny ways 'Cause he's the cause of my sunny days Though sometimes he brings me little tears Still love the man he is Oh I love that man I wouldn't change his funny ways And I wouldn't change the man he is.." Certainly not a feminist anthem -- but the submissive part I can understand in certain situations [ahem] Giovanni
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snvoigt |
Droia | ||
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Posts: 66 (02/25/02 11:54:29) |
No he said Nice color.
I had to rewind it 4 times to get what he said. Shauna |
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Droai |
Re: Impotence | ||
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Posts: 370 (02/25/02 12:58:46) |
Gio wrote: "Certainly not a feminist anthem--but the submissive part I can understand in certain situations [ahem]"
<giggle> Been there, done that Gio! Here's one more..."My Man," sung by various and talented performers, but my favorite rendition is by Billie Holiday. She prefaces the song with this: He's not great on looks He's no hero out of books But I love him Yes, I love him Two or three girls has he that he likes as well as me But I love him [I can't remember the next two lines--Pam] I don't know why I do He's untrue He beats me too What can I do [and then she segues into the song] "My Man" performed by Billie Holiday Oh, my man I love him so He'll never know All my life is just despair But I don't care When he takes me in his arms The world is bright All right What's the difference if I say I'll go away When I know I'll come back on my knees someday For whatever my man is I am his Forever more |
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Rburgette69 |
re: | ||
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Posts: 575 (02/25/02 12:59:25) |
Gio it was indeed Kirk's year for Oz. Not since S3 has he been featured so much and shined so brightly. I only wish I had the nerve to tell him in person how great he was and how much I admire him as an actor.
I also think very highly of Dean each passing season. It makes me sick seeing all these no talent actors get great leading man roles when the men on Oz are some of the most handsome and talented men in the biz. It still pisses me off that even after Runaway bride,Chris isn't in more movies. Rick |
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Droai |
Re: Droia | ||
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Posts: 370 (02/25/02 13:00:42) |
Thanks, Shauna!
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sadie429 |
kissing | ||
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Posts: 19 (02/25/02 13:55:17) |
No matter what the storyline for Beecher and Keller is. I have to give it to Chris Meloni and Lee Tergesen...
These two actors have got that kissing down pat! Practice makes perfect. |
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Rburgette69 |
re: | ||
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Posts: 575 (02/25/02 15:06:10) |
The kiss was magic thats for sure. I don't think there are two actors alive as brave as Chris and Lee...maybe Gale Harold.
Rick |
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