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 Terlonian |
OZ 47: GOOD INTENTIONS |
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Posts: 965 (02/15/02 12:35:01) |
Hill's recovery leads to renewed friction between Redding and Morales, Alvarez gets his wish as the "Man's Best Friend" program is finished and Meehan presents some revolutionary ideas to help Cyril. Meanwhile, Beecher's attempt to help Guenzel doesn't work as planned and Martinez seems close to spilling the beans about Brass.
Director: KEITH SAMPLES |
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Mondo Cane |
Re: OZ 47: GOOD INTENTIONS | ||
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Posts: 1024 (02/17/02 22:18:48) |
It is difficult to see how this is all developing toward a finale... at least one that is memorable.
First: please Beecher never ask Said for advice. 1st he is a mess himself lately and 2nd he is homophobic. Next, quit feeling guilty about assholes...Adam, Vern, etc. Where is this Keller story going? why bring him back to take a fall? At least this episode I enjoyed him speaking to Sr Pete about metaphysics. and the spoiler for the finale does not seem hopeful. I loved the little clip barretts in Adam's hair. Those two prags are like the Brittiney and Christina A. of OZ. Cute. Poet needs to get caught for his lies. Timmy at least got pimped. I guess death row is going to be where it is happening next season. This Cyril thing... I thought now it is illegal to fry the retarded except now the trouble is defining retardation. This was on Public Radio this week. |
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Terlonian |
Re: OZ 47: GOOD INTENTIONS | ||
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Posts: 965 (02/17/02 22:59:32) |
SISTER PETE: Is it just me or does anyone else think that Sister Peter handed Adam his death papers with that "I'm gonna talk to him till he breaks" tyrade. The woman has been in Oz since it's beginning and she doesn't know that statements like that can cut your life line in half?
Pete's Good Intention: Tried to help adam and got him killed. ALVAREZ: I never thought I would say this, but Alvarez has redeemed himself in my eyes. I got choked up when he spoke spanish to that dog. That was too tight for words. Miguel's Good Intention: Trained a seeing eye dog, but what will it do to Rivera's relation with his wife? MEEHAN: When he first arrived, I was like "great, another preacher. Who the hell is this, Cloutier part deux?" But after his determination to help Cyril, I decided to give him a chance. Meehan's Good Intention: Trying to be a rock to Ryan and instilling hope in his heart, but what happens if his plan doesn't work. SAID & BEECHER: Why does Said always have to jump to the radical? If Beecher had left Keller alone, he would have been miserable. Said didn't take into consideration that after Beecher paid for his transgression, he would be alone and to be honest, vulnerable. Therefore, his solution would have caused two extra problems. Ok, here's the comment that's gonna get me heckled. When you reduce it down to it's common denominator, Beecher was wrong for selling Adam to Vern even though it would mean that he would see Keller. When Adam started pulling his shit and Beecher could see he was losing him and especially after that head bobbing thing, he should have left him alone. Adam's idiocy would have taken care of the rest. Said's Good Intention: Trying to save Beecher from his guilt. His heroism would have led beecher to more misery. Beecher's Good Intention: To see Keller and teach Adam a lesson. He didn't get to see Keller and Adam ended up raped and dead. Tim's Good Intention: Tried to find a match for Rebadow but it got Rebadow a big no and an uppercut. Well we'll find out next week what Keller and Cyrils chances are for returning in the next installment of 8. I hope Lopresti is dead! |
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jfc |
Re: OZ 47: GOOD INTENTIONS | ||
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Posts: 2008 (02/17/02 23:54:46) |
Mondo - I am also puzzled as to what the point of the Keller story will be since there is only one episode left and Keller's story can only have a few minutes at most. HBOYa did say there would be one major story line left hanging open, which she found disturbing at a point in time when there was a question of whether there would be an S6 or not, which there now will be. She did not specify which character was involved.
Keller's very complex discussion with Sr Pete reminded me at one point of something I read recently in a biography of Rebecca West by Victoria Glendinning. Speaking of West, Glendinning said "A month before she died, unhappy and frightened, she told her niece, Alison, what her basic quarrel with God was. He had made her so that she could not possibly refrain from committing sins, and now she was being hideously punished for them." Amusingly Glendinning goes further and gives West a TF-ish air: "God for Rebecca West was the ultimate intimate enemy. She pitted herself against Him as if she were a critic and He a recalcitrant artist whose performance did not live up to its reputation." In this episode, TF never gets around to asking if even God's good intentions can go awry, but in his Image article he raised that question. Why is Keller angry about ending his days on death row? Is he angry with God for West-like reasons? Is he angry because he will not see Beecher? Is it angry because he is not afraid of dying now, but will not be dying for love? In "The Invention of Love", one of AE Housman's major complaints, voiced to the object of his love, Moses Jackson, is "Oh, Mo! I would have died for you, but I never had the chance." Different question: This season, generally speaking, is Keller more subdued? Why? (I have my ideas of course.) Is it for reasons other than that CM was dead tired when he filmed his scenes after finishing off his day's SVU shooting? |
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Rburgette69 |
Re: OZ 47: GOOD INTENTIONS | ||
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Posts: 575 (02/18/02 00:17:24) |
I liked this episode but there were a few things that got on my nerves. I agree that Sister Pete was to blame for Adam's death...not that I care about him one way or another but still I agree she should've known better then to say what she did,as far as I'm concerned she as good as fried the kid herself.
Said is getting on my last nerves. Ever since he killed Simon this character has become a real pain to deal with. I'm so tired of his constant telling everyone else what to do and whats right from wrong when he has become one of the worst in the place in recent seasons. Said is getting harder and harder to like these days. I wish Beecher would have enough brains to ignore Said like most everyone else does. I could not believe Ryan and his actions reguarding Cyril. I hope something can be done to keep Cyril off death row. Man I just adored Alverez today (o.k. I always adore him but today especially) I did not like seeing the preview where it looks like he has gotten in trouble again next week. Why does TF build these characters up to do such good only one week later to fall back? Hopefully it is some misunderstanding and nothing like Alverez hurting someone again. God I'm so glad to see Timmy Kirk get his. If he somehow escapes death row I will be pissed beyond words. Now if only Poet can find himself on death row I'd be pleased as punch. This character should've been killed off in season 2. Keller:^( My god do I worry about him. I hope he isn't put to death. Even if he does get death row I doubt we'll see him die next week so it looks promising that he'll return next season if only for a few episodes. Still I'm somewhat hopeful that somehow Keller will not get death row. I just can't see the point in bringing him back just to kill him off. I can't help to think that TF has something else in store. Something up his sleeve. I hope so anyway. Rick |
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Droai |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 370 (02/18/02 01:17:55) |
Mondo (and everyone else who has voiced the question), I'm right there with you...Why did TF bring Keller back to "Oz" in this manner? And yes, Christina, I wouldn't have balked at all if the trial had been over Ronnie Barlog or even Shemin and/or Browne, but this '11th-hour witness with a flashlight after 5 years' story line is *wacked*. Hell, I would have been okay with him getting royally shanked by Vern and buying the farm. A part of me is hoping that this death-row plot was designed to fit in with CM's limited film-time last year, and that of all the other possible 'Keller murder trial' scenarios, this one was chosen because it is the most vulnerable/flimsy.
And call me crazy if you will, but I still believe that Vern is somehow behind the sudden appearance of that '11th-hour witness.' Vern will *never* completely forgive Beecher and Keller, and I don't think that his "in the mean time, we've got other fish to fry" comment to Robson two weeks ago was strictly about Adam. And *why* does Tobias feel the need to confess to Said? I don't know which was worse; Beecher's confession to Said or his 'note' to Sister Pete bringing Adam front and center in everyone's mind, especially (and unfortunately) Vern's. Another thing that's been silent this season is Toby's 'legal' sense. For 5 seasons he's dispensed legal advice to and for anyone breathing, but all of a sudden he's deaf, dumb, and blind in legalese when his boyfriend's life is on the line?! Jfc, I think that Keller's back at that 'on the outside looking in at an image of 'God's' world that doesn't include me' place. Did you catch his response when Sister Pete said "I'll pray for you," and Keller said, "What did you say, Sister Pete? I couldn't (or can't) hear you." That whole exchange reminded me of their 'Pick me' discussion in season 4.1, when Keller took off his St. Dismas medal. And I like it when Keller gets all 'metaphysical' too, Mondo. The man is no dummy. I think that the 'hanging' story line is whether or not Augustus Hill dies (looks like he gets stabbed instead of Redding next week). I'm off to bed. I'm sure I'll regret this in a few hours.  |
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jfc |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 2008 (02/18/02 07:37:24) |
It was Mondo above who first touched on Keller's "metaphysical" discussion with Sr Pete. One of the points of the Incarnation was to provide humans with a "role model." Keller's comment brings to mind Hebrews 4:15. Speaking of Christ, the author says "ours is not a high priest unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who, because of his likeness to us, has been tested every way." It never fails to rankle staid stypes to inquire whether he was tested in "that" way or not, which is one of the reasons The Last Temptation of Christ was controversial. Staid types like to say that Christ was tempted but to actually grapple with that is hard. In the same Keller speech, the reference to "I'm not divine" again sends our minds back to his tattoo monologue.
TF never explicitly lays out for us what Keller's sin is. I suggest it is not that he was not celibate, but that he objectified people, he did not love his neighbor as himself (leaving aside the fact he hates himself, which is a sin of its own), he sought to gratify himself rather than performing works of mercy for others. Perhaps in the final episode, TF will have Keller realize what was truly wrong about himself was not what he thought. Notice it looks like Fr Mukada will be brought back for the season finale. Might the purpose involve Keller? Doubtful: too many Keller scenes will be needed to do justice to a glorious Keller finale, and there is so little time, especially given competing stories. Perhaps TF will play with the audience, and Keller's end will not be "glorious." Perhaps all the "legends" will be stripped away, those in the minds of the inmate and staff, and those of the audience, and we will be shown that Keller is (aside from the fact he is to some degree a psycho killer) perfectly ordinary and human like the rest of us. Keller's speech to Sr Pete also brings to mind one of the more modern translations of the Lord's Prayer: "Do not bring us to the test." A piece of imagery has been glaringly dropped from Keller scenes this year. Unless I am mistaken, there have been no shots of his tattoo this season, unlike past seasons where the camera reveled in it. In the trailer next week, when Keller speaks to Sr Pete about his death sentence, he is shirtless. I wonder if the image will reappear there, with some point. |
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Rburgette69 |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 575 (02/18/02 09:07:17) |
What I'm thinking (hoping) is maybe TF did this on purpose to save Keller in the end? Maybe he knows this witness is lame and wouldn't stand up in court so thats why he went this way instead of going with Barlog or Brown? Barlog or Brown would probably be a sure ticket to death row for Keller but this way TF can scare fans into thinking Keller is headed that way yet will find a loophole to save him (like this flashlight thing) I'm no lawyer but I don't think this kind of stuff would hold up in court. A witness comes forward 5 years later to say he saw Keller dump a body at night with the aid of a flashlight? Hell they let O.J. off with alot more hard core edvidence against him then that. If Keller goes to death row due to this witness I will lose alot of respect for TF's writing and creativity. It would be a joke.
Rick P.S. TF did say that B/K would be very happy this season (I read that when he was discussing the triangle involving McClain) so how can B/K fans be happy if one of them will be killed off? I don't know,I'm just hopeful that Keller will somehow get off. The only thing that can ruin that now is if TF decides to go with this dumb flashlight thing holding up in court...but TF has gone with stupid stories in the past so maybe I'm putting too much faith in him to do the right thing. |
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jfc |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 2008 (02/18/02 16:37:00) |
The one outstanding HBOYa spoiler is:
"Ryan makes a confession." Any ideas about that? |
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Rburgette69 |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 575 (02/18/02 17:31:39) |
I have no idea what she could be talking about where Ryan is concerned. I'm courious to know myself. My guess is maybe Ryan confesses to save Cyril. I'm sure whatever it is this new podmate of Ryan's will probably be involved somehow. Maybe he convinces Ryan to confess for whatever reason. I'm so excited about next week's episode but it's bittersweet because I know it's the last episode for 10 months:^( How I wish Oz ran
as long as QAF. Rick |
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Christina |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 5290 (02/18/02 19:53:24) |
I'm hoping Keller gets off too-lol Oh sorry, in the gutter again. I can't deny I am counting the minutes to that scene between Beecher and Keller. We at least know there is a kiss which is better than nuthin'.
I found it amazing that St. Pete thought Keller was mocking her religion when he asked very seriously if Jesus was"a fag". I don't think that is an unfair question. Doesn't mean he acted on it, but he could have been. It sure sounds like Keller is going to death row. He said right in the preview something about having been sentenced to death. That doesn't mean he is going to die but even Rich Hanlon died despite getting off death row. At least for season six CM has a chance to get more screen time since he wont be working SVU also. |
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krikzil |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 360 (02/18/02 22:57:03) |
Is there any news on CM being in the next episodes? They start filming in April -- is that correct?
Liz |
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Droai |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 370 (02/19/02 06:50:25) |
Christina, I totally agree...Sister Pete (*and* Father Ray) is deep into her own ego again this season. Instead of, "Are you trying to provoke me by mocking *my* religion?" I think a more appropriate response from her would have been "Chris, are you mocking Christ?" or "Do *you* think Christ was a fag, Chris?" Either one of these questions might have drawn a response from Keller that may have helped Sister Pete better gage his mental/emotional state, and perhaps (here's a novel thought) actually 'help' him. One would think that a person with the possibility of receiving the death penalty might be entitled to a little emotional venting. And one would think (and hope) that a Nun/psychologist just might be sensitive to that.
The question of the Nazarene's birth *and* sexuality has long been a fascination of mine. And jfc, "The Last Temptation of Christ" is one of my book treasures. Its so well written and thought provoking. My problem with both of the clerics in "Oz" is that they're constantly claiming God's power. For example, Father Ray's "*I* won't grant you absolution because *I* don't think you deserve it" and as someone else mentioned before, Sister Pete's "I'm leaving because I can't stand to be in the same room with any of you!" (which translates into "We're going to do what *I* want and I could care less about the trouble this might cause anybody in this room or even the 'soon to be murdered' Adam!"). On the other hand, I think it's grand that Tom Fontana has placed two such flawed characters, a priest and a nun, into "Oz." I just wish that they'd take the sty out of their own eyes once in a while. |
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kellygrl |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 5 (02/19/02 08:13:29) |
Did anyone notice the faux pas in the conversation between Ryan and the priest in their cell? Ryan is supposed to be a Catholic and yet in describing his bad experience when he went to church to complain to the priest about his father's abuse, he called him a pastor. Pastors are Protestant, Priests are Catholic. And even a Catholic who has not gone to church in a while would not make a mistake like that.
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GioVita |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 1135 (02/19/02 08:24:00) |
A Roman Catholic priest can be a Pastor if he is the head of the parish and rectory. You may not necessarily call them Pastor, as in "Good Morning, Pastor Smith" -- but they are definitely referred to as Pastors.
Giovanni
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GioVita |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions | ||
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Posts: 1135 (02/19/02 08:28:52) |
From the Catholic Church in my old neighborhood
ANNUNCIATION B.V.M. (Philadelphia-South Vicariate) CLUSTER24 Address: S.E. Cor. 10th and Dickinson Sts. Founded: December 25, 1860 Rectory: 1511 S. 10th St. 19147 Phone: (215) 334-0159 Pastor: Rev. Anthony J. D'Angelico************* Masses: Vigil Mass, Saturdays, upper church, 5:15 PM. Sundays, 7:30, 9:30, 11:30 AM. Holydays, 7, 9 AM; 7:30 PM. Weekdays, M-F 7:30 AM (chapel). Saturday 8 A.M. School: (215) 465-1416 S.E. Cor. 12th and Wharton Sts. 19147 Handicapped Access: Totally Accessible Giovanni
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Droai |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions--A *BIG* What If? | ||
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Posts: 370 (02/19/02 08:35:30) |
Okay, here's my paddle in the River Denial. What if the scene we saw in the previews between Keller and Sister Pete ("It's not every day that you get a death penalty sentence.") is the morning 'before' he leaves for court for the last day of the penalty phase?
And what if the cell he's in when Tobias greets him is sort of an 'intermediate' holding cell while he awaits the verdict? Is it at all possible that TF might be pulling our collective chains big time and that Keller might receive another 'life in prison without the possibility of parole' sentence? I mean, if TF made us wait until the last episode to learn Keller's 'Fate,' would he really tell us what that sentence is in a preview? And am I just completely pissing in the wind on this?
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jfc |
Re: Oz 47: Good Intentions--A *BIG* What If? | ||
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Posts: 2008 (02/19/02 10:14:41) |
I think it is very interesting that Malachy McCourt is playing Fr Meehan. In McCourt's memoir "A Monk Swimming" he talks about how as a boy in Ireland, when his family was starving, he went to a priest to ask for food. The treatment he received was not that which Ryan experienced, but was in its own way so bad it played a major role in turning McCourt against religion, especially of the RC variety. I really recommend his books for entertainment mixed with occasional poignancy. He tells stories in a great way. He has his own website:
www.malachymccourt.com There have been other tie-ins between McCourt and Meehan. McCourt has been a great social activist, especially with regard to the bad treatment of children with mental handicaps at a home where his stepdaughter was housed. Fr Mukada did not withhold absolution from Keller as much because he did not think Keller did not deserve it as because Keller was unwilling to carry out the penance Fr Mukada wanted to suggest. The act of satisfaction is a key element of the sacrament of penance, and is for purposes of healing the wronged person, ruptured relations with society, ruptured relations with God, and the sinner himself. I think when Alvarez's story (to date!) is put together, the seeing eye dog story makes that clear. Mukada could have been more pastoral in his dealings with Keller. In even canon law priests are reminded in one section that they exercise God's judgement. Otherwise the RC Church could save money by replacing the confessional booth with automatic absolution ticket dispensers and soothing recorded voice messages. I think that one of the themes brought to the fore in several stories this season is the tricky relation between love and judgement. I find Sr Pete's reaction to the interaction group appropriate. Her failing is precisely the one Hill comments on in his final monologue. For now just one comment on the riveting Sr Pete/Keller exchange. Given the precise language used at its outset, I wonder if we are seeing TF's subconscious at work. In his review of Oz back in 1997, TV Guide's Jeff Jarvis said it "mocked God", with God's Chillin' apparently lighting that critic's fuse. I think TF's response might be "But I am asking legitimate questions." Jarvis and I are in opposite corners when it comes to Oz and its treatment of religion. |
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jfc |
Why is OZ going to hell? | ||
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Posts: 2008 (02/19/02 11:17:03) |
I touched on this before. I really wonder what others think. While there have been references to hell and "burning" and "judgment" in the past, this season they are being used with even more frequency. This week we got another dose, even a "lake of fire" phrase.
Why are there so many allusions to hell? |
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Mondo Cane |
Re: Why is OZ going to hell? | ||
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Posts: 1024 (02/19/02 16:43:23) |
To quote Dorothy Parker, "What fresh hell is this?" Each new episode of the B/K saga. -g-
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jfc |
Mike Doyle | ||
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Posts: 2008 (02/19/02 19:43:06) |
Mike Doyle (Guenzel) was on SVU in "Prodigy." Can anyone recall seeing him, and remember whom he played? I can't check my tape for a while.
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